Here's a photo of the unfortunate "end of the line" for the Swiss team this year:
Tire Upgrade
Moderator: Scott
Tire Upgrade
Everytime I see the Dakar TV coverage of the sand dunes in Mauritania I get worried we'll be stuck out there for days. So, I'm fitting even larger tires to help with that (see photo #1). These are 215/75-15 BFGoodrich Mud Terrain T/A tires, which will go on front and rear. The side tire will remain a smaller 13" Michellin rally car tire. I'm also reworking the rear suspension because I keep bending the 12mm lower shock mount bolt. We're aiming for a test of the upgrades probably Feb 19/20 at El Mirage and Dumont Dunes.
Here's a photo of the unfortunate "end of the line" for the Swiss team this year:
Here's a photo of the unfortunate "end of the line" for the Swiss team this year:
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roger
- Active Visitor 100
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:54 pm
- Location: nuenen (near eindhoven)
What did happen with the Swiss guys Scott?
My experience with Aprillia is that when the bike has too work it's getting to hot!
Did they leave the bike in Afrika?
Greetz R
My experience with Aprillia is that when the bike has too work it's getting to hot!
Did they leave the bike in Afrika?
Greetz R
http://www.sidecarteam-reipen.de it takes 2 to tango!!!
They towed the sidecar to the finish at Dakar, and I belive it is back home now.roger wrote:What did happen with the Swiss guys Scott? My experience with Aprillia is that when the bike has too work it's getting to hot! Did they leave the bike in Afrika? Greetz R
I got a preliminary story that they were running very hot and then the generator may have gone out. But I never got confirmation of that, so I'm not 100% sure what broke. I'm still awaiting a reply from them to my email questions.
I will say that my V-Rod has also been very hot in sand dunes. Since early testing I've added a second radiator and now have two fans on the radiators and one fan on the large oil cooler. The V-Rod fuel injection computer automatically adjusts the spark timing and adds extra fuel when the motor gets real hot. It still gets a bit hot in bad sand conditions. If my generator goes out, I should be able fix it "on the spot". But I'm sure the problems on my sidecar will be something I didn't plan for!
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Ton Bor
side car wheel
Dear Scott,
Would it be useful for you to propel the sidecar wheel as well? For example, with the same system as used for the two wheel drived solo machines? Apart from the money involved, it might help you through the dunes and it is not very heavy. Moreover, I suspect the general handling of the sidecar might be improved as well. Further, I expect that the differences in wheel diameter of rear wheel and sidecar wheel can be overcome. A possible problem might occur in corners when the rear wheel and sidecar wheel have different rotation speeds, but I doubt that this is serious.
best regards,
Ton Bor
Would it be useful for you to propel the sidecar wheel as well? For example, with the same system as used for the two wheel drived solo machines? Apart from the money involved, it might help you through the dunes and it is not very heavy. Moreover, I suspect the general handling of the sidecar might be improved as well. Further, I expect that the differences in wheel diameter of rear wheel and sidecar wheel can be overcome. A possible problem might occur in corners when the rear wheel and sidecar wheel have different rotation speeds, but I doubt that this is serious.
best regards,
Ton Bor
Re: side car wheel
I agree with nearly everything you say. Since I saw that Yamaha 2WD hydraulic system I have been thinking it would be great on the sidecar wheel for the sand dunes. But my understanding is last year the Yamaha Dakar team had to rebuild the system nearly everyday, and they did not use it in Dakar 2005. That repeated rebuilding is not good for a small Dakar team with limited budget and support (me). I am already working on the sidecar almost everyday preparing for Dakar, and I don't have extra time to experiment with the 2WD system. If it's possible for me to buy the parts from Yamaha, and I have a year for construction and testing, then it might be possible. But for me, that's not possible until after Dakar 2006. Thanks for your thoughts!Ton Bor wrote:Dear Scott, Would it be useful for you to propel the sidecar wheel as well? For example, with the same system as used for the two wheel drived solo machines? Apart from the money involved, it might help you through the dunes and it is not very heavy. Moreover, I suspect the general handling of the sidecar might be improved as well. Further, I expect that the differences in wheel diameter of rear wheel and sidecar wheel can be overcome. A possible problem might occur in corners when the rear wheel and sidecar wheel have different rotation speeds, but I doubt that this is serious. best regards, Ton Bor
p.s. Again I need a passenger for Dakar 2006. Anyone out there want to go? I will pay for almost everything!
Well, we tested the new tires, suspension, and a few other things at El Mirage and Dumont Dunes this past weekend. My brother Eric filled in as passenger. He's thinking he might want to join me for Dakar.
Unfortunately, it has been raining around here for days and the sand at Dumont was wet under the surface, so it was too easy riding around. We will plan another trip there as soon as everything is dry. Sorry, no photos or video from the dunes this time.
Results:
The suspension upgrades worked well. The rear shock now has a circulating dual-hose reservoir to help keep it cool. Now I don't have to worry about the rear shock overheating.
Our new aluminum spare parts box allows more space for passenger to stand. That is working well. But, it's also smaller than the the previous box, so I've had to eliminate some things that we have been carrying. See photo of box below.
The new larger front and rear tires seemed to work better than the previous tires in the sand, but we won't know for sure until we test again when it's dry.
Problems:
1) The front shocks were lengthened to raise the front of the bike a bit (more ground clearance). One result from this is the "trail" in the steering increased to the point where it is too difficult to turn the handlebars. I will have to modify the front forks to move the front wheel forward slightly.
2) The oil cooler got a leak, and made a mess of the bike. Will replace with a new one.
3) Broke three teeth off rear sprocket. I have no idea how that happened???
4) The rear tire went flat after three hours of riding. There is no puncture in the tire. I think the bead area on the new tires is thinner than the previous tires, and the bead-lock rims don't seal as well. I'll figure something out to fix that. Another problem with these tires is that the sidewalls are not nearly as stiff as the rally tires we had before. So, when we get a flat, it's really difficult to continue riding. With the rally tires we could ride on a flat without any problems. I'm investigating a new product to possibly fix this problem (200 dollars per tire). We can't really fit a spare wheel/tire on the sidecar the way the Swiss team does.
5) Even with the wet sand, we still have a hard time climbing the largest dunes. I think it's mainly the weight of the bike that makes it so difficult.
6) At Dumont, the parks ranger (police) stopped us out in the dunes and told us there is a rule that if there are two people on one bike, BOTH riders must have a seat and foot pegs. He said he would be nice and let us go this time, but we should be aware of this rule. Obviously he has never seen an off-road sidecar. We got a good laugh from that one.
Overall the testing went well. The next test will likely be in a few weeks.
Unfortunately, it has been raining around here for days and the sand at Dumont was wet under the surface, so it was too easy riding around. We will plan another trip there as soon as everything is dry. Sorry, no photos or video from the dunes this time.
Results:
The suspension upgrades worked well. The rear shock now has a circulating dual-hose reservoir to help keep it cool. Now I don't have to worry about the rear shock overheating.
Our new aluminum spare parts box allows more space for passenger to stand. That is working well. But, it's also smaller than the the previous box, so I've had to eliminate some things that we have been carrying. See photo of box below.
The new larger front and rear tires seemed to work better than the previous tires in the sand, but we won't know for sure until we test again when it's dry.
Problems:
1) The front shocks were lengthened to raise the front of the bike a bit (more ground clearance). One result from this is the "trail" in the steering increased to the point where it is too difficult to turn the handlebars. I will have to modify the front forks to move the front wheel forward slightly.
2) The oil cooler got a leak, and made a mess of the bike. Will replace with a new one.
3) Broke three teeth off rear sprocket. I have no idea how that happened???
4) The rear tire went flat after three hours of riding. There is no puncture in the tire. I think the bead area on the new tires is thinner than the previous tires, and the bead-lock rims don't seal as well. I'll figure something out to fix that. Another problem with these tires is that the sidewalls are not nearly as stiff as the rally tires we had before. So, when we get a flat, it's really difficult to continue riding. With the rally tires we could ride on a flat without any problems. I'm investigating a new product to possibly fix this problem (200 dollars per tire). We can't really fit a spare wheel/tire on the sidecar the way the Swiss team does.
5) Even with the wet sand, we still have a hard time climbing the largest dunes. I think it's mainly the weight of the bike that makes it so difficult.
6) At Dumont, the parks ranger (police) stopped us out in the dunes and told us there is a rule that if there are two people on one bike, BOTH riders must have a seat and foot pegs. He said he would be nice and let us go this time, but we should be aware of this rule. Obviously he has never seen an off-road sidecar. We got a good laugh from that one.
Overall the testing went well. The next test will likely be in a few weeks.
Ok, I fixed a couple of our recent problems.
The steering was very heavy because the front wheel had too much "trail" due to the longer front shocks. To fix this I added 30mm length to the front swing-arm (see photo link below). It seems to steer much better down the street at my home. A real off-road test is needed to know for sure. With the longer swing-arm, I also had to install stiffer springs.
http://HogWildRacing.com/technical/Fron ... nger05.jpg
With the larger diameter tires, the gearing changed a lot, making first gear way to high. To solve that I changed from a 62 rear sprocket to a 69. It's huge (almost as big as the wheel - see photo below), but there is nothing else I could do. I can't go smaller on the front sprocket.
http://HogWildRacing.com/technical/RearEnd15.jpg
For a long time I have been having problems with slow leaks in the tires. Most of the time the leaks are in the bead sealing area. The beadlock wheels don't seal very well. I have installed very large diameter O-rings between the tire and the wheel, and the leaks seem to have stopped. We'll have to see if this works even when riding.
I also redesigned the rear suspension linkage due to the bending 12mm mounting bolt problem. The rear shock spring is 1000 pound/inch (178kg/cm) with about 4 inches (100mm) of travel. Counting the rubber bumper and damping, that means we get upwards of 5000 pounds (2270kg) through that shock when we bottom. Now the rear shock has a ¾ inch (19mm) 4130 steel shaft for the lower mount. I think that bending problem is solved! Sorry, no photos yet.
On another subject, we are still attracting lots of attention from the Media. See attached from V-Twin magazine (USA), March 2005. Also, two more coming soon in Walneck’s (USA), May 2005 issue, and the U.K magazine Motor Cycle, Sport and Leisure, March 2005 issue. Nice photos in the latter two.
http://www.hogwildracing.com/press_clip ... ch2005.jpg
I've been in contact with Marc van Huik from Netherlands. He wants to build a new sidecar for his Ducati for Dakar 2006. Maybe we can have the "Battle of the V-Twins" with Aprilia - Harley - Ducati !!! CH - USA - NL
The steering was very heavy because the front wheel had too much "trail" due to the longer front shocks. To fix this I added 30mm length to the front swing-arm (see photo link below). It seems to steer much better down the street at my home. A real off-road test is needed to know for sure. With the longer swing-arm, I also had to install stiffer springs.
http://HogWildRacing.com/technical/Fron ... nger05.jpg
With the larger diameter tires, the gearing changed a lot, making first gear way to high. To solve that I changed from a 62 rear sprocket to a 69. It's huge (almost as big as the wheel - see photo below), but there is nothing else I could do. I can't go smaller on the front sprocket.
http://HogWildRacing.com/technical/RearEnd15.jpg
For a long time I have been having problems with slow leaks in the tires. Most of the time the leaks are in the bead sealing area. The beadlock wheels don't seal very well. I have installed very large diameter O-rings between the tire and the wheel, and the leaks seem to have stopped. We'll have to see if this works even when riding.
I also redesigned the rear suspension linkage due to the bending 12mm mounting bolt problem. The rear shock spring is 1000 pound/inch (178kg/cm) with about 4 inches (100mm) of travel. Counting the rubber bumper and damping, that means we get upwards of 5000 pounds (2270kg) through that shock when we bottom. Now the rear shock has a ¾ inch (19mm) 4130 steel shaft for the lower mount. I think that bending problem is solved! Sorry, no photos yet.
On another subject, we are still attracting lots of attention from the Media. See attached from V-Twin magazine (USA), March 2005. Also, two more coming soon in Walneck’s (USA), May 2005 issue, and the U.K magazine Motor Cycle, Sport and Leisure, March 2005 issue. Nice photos in the latter two.
http://www.hogwildracing.com/press_clip ... ch2005.jpg
I've been in contact with Marc van Huik from Netherlands. He wants to build a new sidecar for his Ducati for Dakar 2006. Maybe we can have the "Battle of the V-Twins" with Aprilia - Harley - Ducati !!! CH - USA - NL
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DaveSidoti
sealing tires
Hey Scott
Maybe you should try to use some tire sealer like "slime" around the bead when you assemble the beadlocks. The BFG's are great tires, always my first choice. What is the overall height of those tires?
There are some other tires out there that I can think of that would be good to try. this mickey thompson would be a great steering tire. I can get these through my work. I work at Kartek Offroad http://www.kartek.com in the machine shop.
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/offroad.html
Maybe you should try to use some tire sealer like "slime" around the bead when you assemble the beadlocks. The BFG's are great tires, always my first choice. What is the overall height of those tires?
There are some other tires out there that I can think of that would be good to try. this mickey thompson would be a great steering tire. I can get these through my work. I work at Kartek Offroad http://www.kartek.com in the machine shop.
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/offroad.html
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DaveSidoti